Forums - GummyDrop teaches SPF2T Show all 95 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- GummyDrop teaches SPF2T (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18520) Posted by GummyDrop on 05:14:2001 07:52 AM: okay don't laugh! this thread is brought to you by my very own coach, mister alex valle.... he suggests, since i breathe and sleep puzzle fighter, that i make a thread about pf.... though i hardly think i'm qualified to be "teaching" (i've only been playing for a year)... i think questions comments and tips you guys can make on here can help me become a better player... so... let's begin! =Þ Posted by Dr. Stormlocke on 05:14:2001 11:41 AM: I'll give this thread a bump and ask a question at the same time. I play the game on and off with my friends, so who do you think has the best counter pattern? Posted by Apoc on 05:14:2001 01:34 PM: Hey Gummy! Well, obviously the best counter patterns belong to devilot and akuma but...well you know how weak their attack is...imo by far the worst counter pattern is Ryu...seeing as how you can clear you whole middle with one bomb. Bumpity bump bump Apoc. Posted by moonslash-dan on 05:14:2001 01:38 PM: wow...alex valle also coaches puzzle fighter......amazing......what's next? Posted by esak1er on 05:14:2001 01:40 PM: Puzzle fighter Personally I dont care for it. Posted by Apoc on 05:14:2001 02:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by esak1er Puzzle fighter Personally I dont care for it. Then why are you bothering with this thread? Thx, bye. Apoc. Posted by AZER on 05:14:2001 05:35 PM: Can you give me a tier list for Puzzle Fighter. Thank You. Posted by akumachan on 05:14:2001 05:36 PM: w00t!!!! GO gummy!!!! Posted by Hentai on 05:14:2001 06:55 PM: hey can you play as the little girl in puzzle fighter at the arcades? (donovans little pal) i know you can on PS Posted by Zerogun on 05:14:2001 07:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hentai hey can you play as the little girl in puzzle fighter at the arcades? (donovans little pal) i know you can on PS Sorry.. You can't. It's a PS option only. Posted by Zerogun on 05:14:2001 07:35 PM: Okay, here's a question for you, Gummydrop... What is your stance on using the daimond trick? Posted by Deviant on 05:14:2001 08:53 PM: hey, i used to play the first super puzzle fighter, so i'm not sure if this q applies to spf2t, but i wanted to know some strategies/tricks for playing as dan. obviously his counter is pretty weak, no, extremely weak, but i wanted to see if i could beat the game with him. i got as far as akuma before, but just could not get past the dark hadou puzzle master. thanks Deviant Posted by CaliPower on 05:14:2001 09:01 PM: its gummydrop! i'm at alex's house and more than happy to reply =o) Dr. Stormlocke: thank you for being the very first person to post on this thread! i believe apoc has answered your question well. Apoc: i love you!!!! thank you for answering! moonslash-dan: yup! he's still my coach... he is VERY good at the game.. and i'm hoping he'll coach me for another game very soon esak1er: this remains one of the most popular puzzle game in the arcades... heck this game still has quarters lined up on the weekends and it came out in 96! what other game that old still has that many ppl playing? its a classic! AZER: Ken, Donovan, Morrigan are the best competitive characters akumachan: *waves* haaaaaiiii!!! Zerogun: i'm sorry but i don't quite understand your question... clarify?? thank you everybody! CaliPower sayz hi! Posted by SilverGear on 05:14:2001 09:19 PM: Okay I'm gonna sound like an idiot but bear with me. Okay I'm gonna sound like an idiot but bear with me here. I've only played this game once and that was back in like early 97 ^^; and I was wondering: Does it matter who you use? What I mean is there a top and lower tier? And what are the characters featured in this game again? All I remember were Ryu and Morrigan ^^; Sorry to be so stupid but I never really had the chance to play the game often I was too absorbed with King of Fighters 96 and Darkstalkers ^^; But um...If you see this Gummy or Alex an answer would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance! Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:14:2001 10:03 PM: Re: Okay I'm gonna sound like an idiot but bear with me. quote: Originally posted by SilverGear Okay I'm gonna sound like an idiot but bear with me here. I've only played this game once and that was back in like early 97 ^^; and I was wondering: Does it matter who you use? What I mean is there a top and lower tier? It doesn't matter so much as to how things match up, it's just that certain patterns are better than others. You want to drop the counter gems in a manner that they won't create long strings or power gems. For example.... Dan: His are all red. You'd best try to knock them out with one attack because if they survive and break the power gems that inevitably form, you're in trouble. Ryu: His are awful, in that they create long vertical strings against which a good player can create power gems (IE. By stacking a few reds next to Column 1, where Ryu's counter gem pattern puts all the reds) Sakura: She gets killed by strategic use of the Diamond. You see, in the middle she has two alternating colors for each row, and if you get rid of one of those colors, it leaves you with one big power gem. On the edges her counter gems create columns, which is a bad thing. Donovan: While you may notice that his pattern creates power gems on the top, that's not an issue if you're smart. The plan with him is to get three or so rows, then attack quickly again to cover the rows with alternating colors. Ken: Best character in the game as long as you don't try to attack small. His create rows that alternate between all four colors, so unless you plan on keeping your playing field perfectly level, you're in trouble. Chun Li/Felicia: DO NOT use these characters. Both of their patterns create easy power gems and get them killed easily. Akuma/Devilot: While they have the most complex patterns in the game, they do about 2/3rds as much damage (Damage = dropped counter gems) when used by human players, so they're not worth it. Morrigan and Hsien Ko are grey areas for me. Ask Gummydrop about them. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:14:2001 10:10 PM: quote: Originally posted by Zerogun Okay, here's a question for you, Gummydrop... What is your stance on using the daimond trick? I'll answer this even though I'm not Gummydrop. While diamonds wipe out all of a certain color, the damage they do is significantly decreased. Thus, if you've got a big power gem built, avoid putting it on that same color at all costs unless you need to get out of a jam. As I mentioned before, diamonds are among Sakura's worst enemies. - Cletus Kasady Posted by LiquiTed on 05:14:2001 10:43 PM: PF hey more Puzzle Fighter talk....all this and someone just happened to mention having a PF Tournament in Charlotte soon ! Gummy... I wish our arcades still had lines of players on ANYTHING...alas the scene is dead and no arcade within 200+ miles has a Puzzle Fighter machine...oh wait , there is that one at the Starlight Theaters in Anderson SC...ummm nevermind . BTW...when using dan you can find limited success with patience . try not to use the activators untill your able to build a HUGE gem . Wait for the activators on your opponets screen to stop falling 9the run in bursts and when they sop falling your opponet may hav to wait a while befoe he gets anymore) then drop the big bomb on him . Now hurry and clear your screen as fast as possible (you may be in for a huge retaliation) and hope your opponet doesn't get the red activator otherwise it's GG...or yo could just taunt the whole match for fun Donovan is good for constant attacks while never really dropping any huge gems on 'em to keep their patterns from forming and forcing them to use the diamond to clear areas (which makes for very weak attacks) Ken is to be played more patiently (seems backwards to me considering his Street Figter roots) . Build up the bid attacks (chain links are best) and unleash the fury . Akuma and devilot are good fo constant pressure or big attacks just be ready for long fights and several lead changes as neither can cover your opponet up fast . they use their ability to cover the screen with odd patterns to lock out your retaliations . hey , does anyone know the connection between gem attack placement from one side to the other ? Sorry if this sounds confusing but what I mean is if you activate a 2x4 Gem in the right hand corner (with the 2 row being horizontal and the 4 row being verticle) how it would fall as a attack on the other side ? I don't mean this exclusively just how any attack is registered on your opponets screen . Ted Posted by Will Hunting on 05:15:2001 12:13 AM: Puzzle fighter is a skill game, and has gone throught the test of time, which makes it a classic. But in terms of top tiers, to be realistic the only character worth using is Ken. Pound for pound, Ken's advantages and pattern is superior overall to any other character. Posted by TalbainEric on 05:15:2001 12:20 AM: Cool,Hey GummyDrop,what's the best stragety to defeat Devilot using someone like Anita or Lin Lin? And what's the best way to defeat Akuma. Posted by Monkey on 05:15:2001 12:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by moonslash-dan wow...alex valle also coaches puzzle fighter......amazing......what's next? Umm. That is not Alex Valle. I believe that Gummy is his girlfriend. (Right Gummy?) Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:15:2001 12:53 AM: Umm...AFAIK there aren't any real matchup details in PF. It just goes "Ken's CG Pattern > Felicia's CG Pattern, thus Ken beats Felicia". No "A beats B, but A loses to C whose ass B kicks". So beating Devilot/Akuma pretty much means piling on your attacks like you would to beat anyone else. Human Devilot/Akuma are somewhat mediocre because they don't do very much CG damage. - Cletus Kasady Posted by moonslash-dan on 05:15:2001 01:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey Umm. That is not Alex Valle. I believe that Gummy is his girlfriend. (Right Gummy?) no, i said coaches......alex is her coach, read it again. Posted by Apoc on 05:15:2001 03:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Cletus Kasady I'll answer this even though I'm not Gummydrop. While diamonds wipe out all of a certain color, the damage they do is significantly decreased. Thus, if you've got a big power gem built, avoid putting it on that same color at all costs unless you need to get out of a jam. As I mentioned before, diamonds are among Sakura's worst enemies. - Cletus Kasady No, what the question is referring to is a glitch(well maybe it isn't) that was discovered and used in Vegas tournaments. We call it the "power diamond". The trick entails building a tunnel so that when you press right or left to turn the diamond it only flips upside down. What you do is bring the diamond down into to the tunnel and when it touches down, flip it. This significantly increases damage GREATLY. So say you have some huge red power gem...normally you won't want to use a diamond on it. What a waste right? But use the power diamond and the match is most likely over unless their timing is proper and execute a power diamond back or they have a significant chain they set off to counter. Some ppl mistakenly thought that this ruined the game. That it actually ended the match everytime...sadly they stopped playing because of it (no not in vegas...namely some *ahem* srk moderators *ahem*). It actually increased the strategy and made timing, not speed a very important factor as well. Depending on how big a gem you have or how slow your opponent is going...things like that...you may NOT want to use the power diamond...it is suicide often...see if you power diamond me...and I am purposefully going slow...and I know you can't outright kill me though I may be close...you just gave me a whole screen worth of ammunition for my power diamond which will toss it right back and then some while making my screen all perty Damn Gummy! Making me wanna go play Kenny and get back into it. If he plays it's against the cpu now with akuma or devilot to get freakish scores. And the home version is totally different. Lin Lin is easily the best at home. And an interesting tidbit for those that didn't know...a 6 chain automatically counters 99. heheh What a cool thread! Apoc. Posted by tone on 05:15:2001 03:55 AM: Cool, Gummydrop is teaching puzzle fighter now.. hehe. She's damn good too so this thread should be fun . Umm... just to explain diamond trick to some people who still don't know.. It's when you get a diamond piece and you slide it between two columns.. then you flip it only once.. the piece flips 180 degrees since its between two columns... the diamond then is on the bottom.. when it destroys whatever color .. the damage will be doubled. It's a trick that only elite puzzle fighters know... its also kinda cheap sorta like AHVB... hehe. I think z-gun's question was from a morality stand point.. should you or shouldn't you use it. In my opinion if both players know the trick then it should be use since it enhances the game greatly having a powerful move like that. If only one person knows though then.. feel sorry for the other person . Well, continue with the puzzle discussions.. hehe. Damn, I love that game. LOL.. ok I posted and apoc posted at the same time explaining diamond trick. So I guess its double puzzle fighting action. Apoc, we gotta play again... I only got to play you twice and it was 1-1... nothing's better than puzzle fighting fun. Posted by GummyDrop on 05:15:2001 04:03 AM: moonslash-dan: yup alex valle IS my coach... he taught me how to play (although RINA of the vs family taught me how to attack) and he still plays with me from time to time to keep me on my toes (i know you're looking at them valle ) Cletus Kasady: yes you are right... pf is simple like that... but Ken vs Ken matches tend to become a battle for the diamond... you can't always say "Felicia will ALWAYS lose to Ken" if that were true... no one would play anybody else BUT ken! Monkey: yea... i'm his gf... some ppl still don't know that.. some ppl still think i'm a guy! (and then there are those who think i'm a gay male with a crush on valle.... sometimes i dunno if they're joking or serious... scary) TalbainEric: i know its been said.. but... damage is where you can get akuma/devilot... oh btw... anita & lin lin are not available in the arcade Will Hunting: tru... but still... unless you do a LOT of damage EVERY time (or kill them right away), he'll always end up dropping red and green... LiquiTed: i'm so jealous! i wish we'd have a tourney... booo... as for the gem placement... omg sirlin told me this once but i'm sorry to say i've forgotten... but i'll get back to you on it! SilverGear: i believe Cletus Kasady replied very well (thank you C.K.!!) as for morrigan and hsien ko.. both are actually really good... morrigan has the problem of dropping power gem in the middle (so if you leave your middle clear... she'll give you nice gems ready to break) and all you're left with is blue and yellow... as for hsien ko.. she's good if you attack moderately... her problem is.. if you're not careful.. she'll give your opponent nice perfect power gems... (the screen looks something like chunli) but little rows at a time won't connect... and give the opponent a while to build a gem... Deviant: attack attack attack! you only have one shot with dan.. that's the gamble... but it can be done! if you can keep building power gems, make them chain or connect, then break your chain right before the diamond, and use the diamond the clear the rest... dan does a LOT of damage so your only hope is to kill the oppponent BEFORE he/she gets their diamond (so of course you have to be one or two blocks ahead)... if you don't... goodness you're in trouble... only thing left to do is taunt... thank you soooooooo much everybody fr your input... i had a lot of fun looking at everyone's comments... *muah* Posted by AZER on 05:15:2001 04:22 AM: Thank You GummyDrop. Posted by SilverGear on 05:15:2001 04:24 AM: Much appreciated. quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop SilverGear: i believe Cletus Kasady replied very well (thank you C.K.!!) as for morrigan and hsien ko.. both are actually really good... morrigan has the problem of dropping power gem in the middle (so if you leave your middle clear... she'll give you nice gems ready to break) and all you're left with is blue and yellow... as for hsien ko.. she's good if you attack moderately... her problem is.. if you're not careful.. she'll give your opponent nice perfect power gems... (the screen looks something like chunli) but little rows at a time won't connect... and give the opponent a while to build a gem... thank you soooooooo much everybody for your input... i had a lot of fun looking at everyone's comments... *muah* First thank you Cletus for taking the time to reply. Now GummyDrop I'm not done yet! I have another dumb question to ask you (Please take note that I ask alot of stupid questions...I'm not all that bright ) so here I go: Which character would you suggest I use since I'm basically a beginner? Much appreciated Gummy for your reply. Your one sweet person and cute too! (Saw your picture a while back.) Don't hurt me Alex!!! *Runs away............* LoL Take it easy. Posted by Apoc on 05:15:2001 04:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by tone Cool, Gummydrop is teaching puzzle fighter now.. hehe. She's damn good too so this thread should be fun . Umm... just to explain diamond trick to some people who still don't know.. It's when you get a diamond piece and you slide it between two columns.. then you flip it only once.. the piece flips 180 degrees since its between two columns... the diamond then is on the bottom.. when it destroys whatever color .. the damage will be doubled. It's a trick that only elite puzzle fighters know... its also kinda cheap sorta like AHVB... hehe. I think z-gun's question was from a morality stand point.. should you or shouldn't you use it. In my opinion if both players know the trick then it should be use since it enhances the game greatly having a powerful move like that. If only one person knows though then.. feel sorry for the other person . Well, continue with the puzzle discussions.. hehe. Damn, I love that game. LOL.. ok I posted and apoc posted at the same time explaining diamond trick. So I guess its double puzzle fighting action. Apoc, we gotta play again... I only got to play you twice and it was 1-1... nothing's better than puzzle fighting fun. Yeah...Gummy's lighting fire under my old PF butt! I told my friend Kenny that ppl were playing it alot at shgl...but he won't take me seriously...and he thinks he's the best in the world! lol So we gotta get some PF action at b5 goin' so Kenny can see that he has real challenges out there! That's hard to come by for the best in the world! lol. I gotta get him into this thread...he'll be talking shit to Gummy! haha...k...I think I need to go play so PF=) Thanx for startin' such a cool thread Gummy=) Apoc. Posted by Apoc on 05:15:2001 04:46 AM: Um...Me is dumb. *slap* Hey...it's been a while since I've talke PF ok? Anywho. I meant to say that anita is the best on home version...I was thinking her name was Lin Lin after reading it...my bad Apoc. Posted by Cybermitsu on 05:15:2001 05:35 AM: Umm... this is alot of stuff to take in at one time. I have been trying to improve my PF game since my first time seeing someone basically beat the crap out of the computer. IIRC, silk was playing at the time and I was simply amazed... I don't know if I still can play puzzle games but I am willing to learn a bit... Can you explain some of the basic terminology? There is actually damage??? Posted by dr.Dink on 05:15:2001 05:41 AM: Donovan is my pick for counters. As for tactics... I call this the sweep(got this from broom hatter on kirbys avalanche). Put blocks on both sides really fast. Make sure you don't match any of them up or you lose time to your opponent. Two horizontal rows on both sides, then just get rid of the blocks. This is the best way to do combos IMO. I've made a 9 hit combo before!! Whoo hoo! Posted by tone on 05:15:2001 05:48 AM: We gotta definately get some puzzle fighting action at b5. Oh, to help kenny get back into it(don't take it too seriously.) I AM THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN PUZZLE FIGHTER. I WOULD OWN ANY AND EVERYONE IN THAT GAME. DON'T EVEN TRY TO STEP TO ME. YOU WILL BE CRUSHED. yeah.. so like.. anyone wants a challenge just let me know hehe. Posted by dr.Dink on 05:15:2001 05:54 AM: Hmm...your too far for a person to person challenge, but when it comes out for Kaillera I CHALLENGE YOU!!!! Either that or I'm gonna take a greyhound bus and expect me in 3 or 4 days!! Posted by SyberNinja on 05:15:2001 08:33 AM: Wow to be honest i never thought this game was so deep lol I must say i only played it like twice and i liked it..but didn't take it for what it is worth sorry :*( But after reading this thread i can see where this game can be tons of fun as well as tourny level playable lol After reading what little i have in this thread i think i will take up playing again..to think a game so old can make someone start playing it now...interesting Maybe i will wait until after ECC6 so i still have a MvC2 mindset LOL j/k Good thread gummyD keep up the good work! Posted by Cletus Kasady on 05:15:2001 04:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Cybermitsu Can you explain some of the basic terminology? There is actually damage??? The only time when that comes into play is with Akuma/Devilot. Since they have incredibly complex patterns (IE. No two counter gems of the same color are adjacent), Capcom figured that if they were included, they should drop less counter gems with their attacks. Other than that, they're all the same per character. Normal gems send over one counter gem if they're simply crashed on their own. Crash gems do less, as do counter gems. Every gem used in a power gem gets multiplied depending on how big the gem is: I think it goes 2x for a 2 by ? gem, 3x for a 3 by ? gem, etc, etc. Chains also do increased damage, but since I'm not good enough to set up chains very well , I can't remember how those work. Apoc: I never knew about that power diamond. Thanks. - Cletus Kasady Posted by Zerogun on 05:15:2001 05:07 PM: Posted by LiquiTed on 05:15:2001 08:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja Maybe i will wait until after ECC6 so i still have a MvC2 mindset LOL j/k Good thread gummyD keep up the good work! Man I always get a warm feeling inside after reading GummyDrop's posts Syber.... The good thing about ECC is the Break has a PF machine there and there is always much play going on in between matches . i'll be there playing after my sound defeats in CapSNK !) Ted Posted by TS on 05:15:2001 09:11 PM: http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/34415.html Posted by ej_333 on 05:15:2001 09:13 PM: Holy shit, are you guys just making things up, i had no idea puzzle fighter had strategy! No wonder I always lose at that game! Posted by bebe on 05:15:2001 09:22 PM: Hi Gummy! I registered just for this thread. hehe. Too bad i can't go to E3 to play Puzzle Fighter with you. Oh well...I guess we have to wait till B5. I'm gonna start practicing harder now! hehehe. Posted by Will Hunting on 05:16:2001 06:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop Will Hunting: tru... but still... unless you do a LOT of damage EVERY time (or kill them right away), he'll always end up dropping red and green... Let me ask you a question. If there was a tournament, and you had to play dead serious, who would you use? Choose only 1 character. Posted by Jakuda on 05:16:2001 07:10 AM: I don't play PF that much, but I remember some friends telling me, about some players, who all the do is hold the joystick to the side/down and let the gems stack up randomly and same thing with the powergems. And they claim taht they win all the time that way? Posted by GummyDrop on 05:16:2001 07:24 AM: apoc & tone: haaaaaaiiiii!!!!!! thank you for explaining the diamond trick... i'm still not sure what the question was... how to do it.. or should you do it? ah well... nice job fellas... SilverGear: you can use any char to begin with... (although i really don't recommend ChunLi or Felicia)... never start with the hidden characters... you won't get a real feel for the game... go ahead and start with Ken Donovan or Morrigan... and play around with other char... you'll find their special strengths the more you play .. apoc: best tell your friend to get ready for b5... and tell him don't worry... its okay to get beat down by a girl Cybermitsu: whenever you break a block (or gem).. it send counter gems to your opponent (much like tetris, and bust-a-move aka bubble bobble). each char sends a different amount of counter blocks... and each char has a differenct pattern of gems (for example ryu will always drop red down column 1)... the more power gems you break on your side.. the more damage is sent to your opponent... when you chain combo, you send more damage, aka blocks to your opponent dr.Dink: that strategies works sometimes... but there are many ways to get around it... it also helps if you can set your speed (1-5) before the match... at shgl you can do that... most places are pre-set on 3... but that strategy works only as long as you leave col 4 empty... and you work really fast! SyberNinja: thank you! i'm glad we're inspiring you to play again.. i hope to play you at b5!!! Cletus Kasady: actually its more than just Devilot/Akuma... the damage also varies with each character (Chunli sends more damage than Ken) and with the speed of the game... (speed 1 sends more damage than speed 5)... and of course.. the infamous diamond trick... there are lots of things that can vary the damage... (chain combos too) LiquiTed: aww how sweet! *muah* TS: oh i know.. i was so mad!! its not fair!! ej_333: yes... there is strategy... go re-learn that game.. come to b5... and get beat down.. er... i mean...heh... j/p! this is not another "girl game" ... its fun! bebe: mang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i miss you!!! you shoulda made john take you to e3... ah well.. but b5 is just around the corner!!! oh do you like the avatar? hehe... dope huh? omg... i dunno if john told you... but karen and i found a place that makes spicy chicken!! i go there a couple times a week.. i'd like to go more often... but alex won't let me =( oh ... i have something for you!! i'll give it to john to give to you when he goes back... well.. i hope to see you soon girl!!! *muaaaaaaaaaaaaaa* *huggggs* thank you again everybody.. i'm having a lot of fun!!! hope to see more comments! calipower: where is YOUR post sir??? i feel to special! bebe's very first post was in my thread!!!! woo hoo!!! Posted by Yumi Saotome on 05:16:2001 09:28 AM: This is how I learned puzzle fighter: 1) Choose Ken, Morrigan, or Donovan only. Screw the rest. 2) Do not put anything in the fourth column. 3) Whoever sets up faster wins ^_^. Posted by Apoc on 05:16:2001 03:25 PM: K...well Ahem. Kenny says he will play ANYONE at 50$ a game. Unless there is a tourney. He's the only one that's played since the Vegas tourney really. But he only plays for points using devilot and akuma and so far his top score is untouchable. Not sure what it is...if you wanna know I'll check. And he says to remind everyone that when the game was big and we had the vegas tourney that Vegas took all top placings including Jesselee placing 4th above anyone out of state. He claims he understands the game more than anyone and I'm dirt now But hey...when do I play? I promptly reminded him that I took him out and he got 3rd After all...tourney is what counts right LOL. He'll never live that down. That's the only reason he can't talk shit to me lol. His brother worked that day and won many vegas tourneys as well. He thinks the best players in the country are him, his brother, and Vince who took 1st in Vegas. We don't really talk to shady vince anymore. Anyway...he says if there's even a mini tourney he'll come to b5 and win it. And if not...he wants to play 50$ a game. He doesn't think even Japanese players can hang because Vince used to play them online and went undefeated. John...his brother is a master chainer. He loves to play against sakura...he doesn't diamond blue or red he sets off HUGE ass chains on her. Kenny thinks Morrigan is a joke...and to be honest...in a tourney when the game was hot...she was. And to be honest...my pf game is a joke now compared to his. Not saying that I couldn't warm up to it again. But he's leagues better than I am at the moment...but then I've played what? 2 times in the last year? But even still...I think he and John really broke down the science well and much more so after I stopped playing. I'm a pretty good chainer even now I think...well not that good...but better than the average pfer I think...and I'm nothing to them Which after saying it so many times in this post is kinda pissing me off! lol Makes me wanna play. Kenny says that only after a few games...no matter the setting(seems every arcade has a different PF setting) he will EASILY dominate anyone in that game...only his brother and vince could hang. So...I say practice up and get a small side tourney if you wanna see him play Such a fun game deserving of another tourney And honestly anyone that would play him 50$ a game would be pretty ...well...they would have to NOT care anything about money heheh. So...if anyone thinks they are that good...shoot...have a lil tourney I would love to see him lose ...again. Haha I seriously can't remember the last time I saw him play a real match without devilot or akuma so...despite what he thinks he HAS to be rusty. heheh Any takers? I think a mini-tourney would be fun=) Apoc. Posted by Ponder on 05:16:2001 05:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by Apoc But use the power diamond and the match is most likely over unless their timing is proper and execute a power diamond back or they have a significant chain they set off to counter. Some ppl mistakenly thought that this ruined the game. That it actually ended the match everytime...sadly they stopped playing because of it (no not in vegas...namely some *ahem* srk moderators *ahem*). It actually increased the strategy and made timing, not speed a very important factor as well. I didn't say that it "ended the match everytime", I said that it required you build your game around it instead of the supposedly core gameplay rules (like building big gems and combos). I still say PF without the diamond trick (or "power diamond" if you prefer) is a better game. Without the diamond trick, every single gem placement matters. If you're not working toward building long chains or large gems (or even better, long chains of big gems!), then you're clearly on the losing path. There was a consequence for every drop, and the person who could *consistently* lay down the best pattern to set up long chains or the Tower of Power" on the side would almost always win. The diamond could only be used to clean up garbage (to hopefully setup bigger gems or clean out column 4). It was *purely* a defensive tool. In order to mount an effective offense, you need to build smart. Setups like this: RGY GBR Are essentially garbage. That's not a chain or a big gem and does nothing for you offensively. Build like that and you're going to get slaughtered. When you add the diamond trick, suddenly every gem on the screen has the potential to do serious damage. There's no such thing as garbage. No matter where the gems are or how they're connected (or more often, not connect) to other gems, the diamond trick will make them powerful. This has several side-effects (all of which are bad, IMHO). 1) It's now possible to kill your opponent OUTRIGHT simply by breaking what was once garbage. If your screen is mostly full, 1/2 of it is a single color, and you diamond trick it, you're probably going to kill the other guy. It doesn't matter where those gems are... the diamond doesn't care. You can kill your opponent with brain-dead gem placement. The first strategy to use the diamond trick worked something like "put any gem anywhere (it doesn't really matter where, but try to avoid column 4) but don't break ANYTHING before your 1st diamond. Now diamond trick your biggest color. That will send a big load and leave only 3 colors on the screen with a bunch of crash gems. You'll probably get a lot of gratuitous breaks off of this and might end up with a 70+ drop and kill your opponent. Hope for the best.". This is actually a legitimate strategy (not a very good one, but you'll win sometimes with it). It's Puzzle Fighter flipped completely on it's head. Before you were trying to setup big combos or build a big gem so that 1 crash gem will set it all off (hard). This strategy is the complete opposite: just don't break anything and wait for the diamond (easy). 2) What were originally very weak setups become very powerful. For example, suppose my side is 1/4 red, 1/4 green and 1/2 blue with absolutely nothing connected (i.e. all 1x1 gems) and no crash gems. That position is extremely weak. Without the diamond trick, there's nothing I can do to mount an offensive with a setup like that. With the diamond trick, all I have to do is figure out a way to use it on the blue and I'm good to go. This is another example of how the diamond trick reduces the emphasis of gem placement, but the effect here is even more insidious. It means that if the other guy's side is more than 1/2 full, I have to completely avoid column 4 regardless of whether or not he's got a big chain or large gem built up. If I don't, I risk death the next time he gets a diamond. Not building in column 4 is a HUGE roadblock for anyone who wants to setup a large chain. It essentially means you get a 3x12 and a 2x12 column to work with instead of 1 6x12. Before, there was a risk/reward tradeoff to building in column 4. It made it easier for your opponent to kill you, but gave you much more flexibility in building a large chain and thus kill your opponent. It uppped the stakes. Before you could selectively decide to build in column 4 based on the strength of your opponents setup. Now, every setup is strong, so you can never build in column 4. The risk is just too great. The diamond trick adds some new features to the game, but I think it's worse off because of them. It's a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and a thremonuclear device all rolled into a nice little package. It's as if you took ST (a perfectly good game for what it is) and added CC's for no good reason. Would it still be a good game? Depends on your tastes. Would it be as good as ST? Again, depends on your tastes, but my opinion is "no". Posted by Zerogun on 05:16:2001 09:37 PM: To Ponder: Amen brother. I absolutely hate the daimond trick... here is the easiest way to win anyone. Stay exactly 2 moves behind your opponent. If he breaks ANYTHING at all, then counter it... He will always get the daimond first... then after he breaks his, you should counter it (or if you're smarter, make his daimond a counter..) and then break RED with your daimond. You'll give him at least 89 gems. As a rule, when my friends and I play, we never use the daimond trick. Something about it... rules the game completely for me. Otherwise, I love Puzzle Fighter. Posted by bebe on 05:16:2001 10:17 PM: Gummy: I miss you too!!!! I can't make it to E3...I'm busy with work. But you're right...B5 is just around the corner so we'll see each other soon. That's cool that you and Karen found a spicy chicken place! You don't have to drive to Nor. Cal to get it now. hehe. BTW...I love your avatar!!! It's so cute. Too bad I can't get one...I only have like 2 posts. Ponder: I agree that the Diamond Trick ruins the game. People can get so lucky and win just from the Diamond Trick even though they're not really building any blocks. The game is more strategic (even though it already is) without the Diamond Trick. Zerogun: How can staying exactly 2 moves behind your opponent be the easiest way to win? I don't quite understand that. You said that if your opponent breaks ANYTHING than counter it? I think countering your opponent is good to get yourself out of a jam...but otherwise it only sends over half of what it would normally send over IF you attack first. Attacking first has an advantage because it forces your opponent to break a huge gem in order to survive and will only do half of the damage to you. But than again...if you attack first and it doesn't kill your opponent and he gets a diamond and does the Diamond Trick...you're screwed. Posted by Apoc on 05:17:2001 02:42 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ponder [B] I didn't say that it "ended the match everytime", I said that it required you build your game around it instead of the supposedly core gameplay rules (like building big gems and combos). I still say PF without the diamond trick (or "power diamond" if you prefer) is a better game. Without the diamond trick, every single gem placement matters. If you're not working toward building long chains or large gems (or even better, long chains of big gems!), then you're clearly on the losing path. There was a consequence for every drop, and the person who could *consistently* lay down the best pattern to set up long chains or the Tower of Power" on the side would almost always win. The diamond could only be used to clean up garbage (to hopefully setup bigger gems or clean out column 4). It was *purely* a defensive tool. In order to mount an effective offense, you need to build smart. Setups like this: RGY GBR Are essentially garbage. That's not a chain or a big gem and does nothing for you offensively. Build like that and you're going to get slaughtered. When you add the diamond trick, suddenly every gem on the screen has the potential to do serious damage. There's no such thing as garbage. " Heheh...Kenny wants me to stop posting...but...this is so wrong. You fail to acknowledge that the other player has this too...and without killing someone you give them great artillery against you. I don't know if you realize that your chain and power gems affect the diamond too. So if you have a lot of dirt the only thing your going to do by using the power diamond is kill yourself. No matter where the gems are or how they're connected (or more often, not connect) to other gems, the diamond trick will make them powerful. This has several side-effects (all of which are bad, IMHO). Simply because you really don't understand this game.(heheh telling Ponder he doesn't understand a capcom game...heheh Is this bad karma?) Really now. When it was fist discovered we thought that is was bs as well. But then we started taking it seriously...and walah...better, more strategic game. Instead ofgoing through why here...I'm simply going to respond to your points as I read them. 1) It's now possible to kill your opponent OUTRIGHT simply by breaking what was once garbage. " No, it is not. Unless your opponent is garbage. The diamond comes as the 25th gem. For you to kill your opponent by then they must build stupidly and have NOTHING to counter you with. The diamond forces you to KNOW what the heck you're doing. As in building nice chains so that you don't waste your power diamond countering...which, if you do resets the game to a certain extent with added artillery for both. And despite what you think...I really find it hard to believe the "super" gem was designed for defense. Unless you have built something VERY pretty and your opponent has no clue...this is not what happens. And if you do build pretty like that you can kill someone MUCH sooner before the diamond even comes into play. If your screen is mostly full, 1/2 of it is a single color, and you diamond trick it, you're probably going to kill the other guy." lol. Ok when does this happen? After what? The second diamond at best? The only time you half half a screen of one color is when your opponent keeps breaking little stuff. Which is already bad strategy without the power diamond...understanding yet how the concepts of the game were already misunderstood before you even knew about the power diamond? In all honesty...the power diamond among good players changes nothing...either does picking devilot or akuma(except with them you have a longer opportunity to build bigger chains). The power diamond simply separates the men from the boys. " It doesn't matter where those gems are... the diamond doesn't care." Actually there are a number of factors all depending on what those gems are. "You can kill your opponent with brain-dead gem placement." Only a brain-dead opponent. The first strategy to use the diamond trick worked something like "put any gem anywhere (it doesn't really matter where, but try to avoid column 4) but don't break ANYTHING before your 1st diamond. Now diamond trick your biggest color. That will send a big load and leave only 3 colors on the screen with a bunch of crash gems. You'll probably get a lot of gratuitous breaks off of this and might end up with a 70+ drop and kill your opponent. Hope for the best.". This is actually a legitimate strategy (not a very good one, but you'll win sometimes with it). Again...you will only defeat ppl who don't know how to play the game. This is not even close to legitimate strategy. First off. You're not even taking into account your characters power color. Or your chain set that the diamond sets off...this is what I labeled years ago as "Puzzle Fighter for Dummies". Not to insult. But that is the game for a dummy. Do that against a real PF player and first of all...you won't be able to counter his diamond with a counter like that and at best you may have a couple of nice 6 gems. If the opponent gets the diamond after you...he has power gems...more damage...then sets off the chain and kills YOU. THis is a strategy that can work most anywhere...but I remember you guys thought you knew what you were talking about...and my girl spanked on you both. Then at ecc they said the same thing...again...while fun...concepts were sorely lacking as they are here still. You give the game a bad wrap undeservedly. It's Puzzle Fighter flipped completely on it's head. Before you were trying to setup big combos or build a big gem so that 1 crash gem will set it all off (hard). This strategy is the complete opposite: just don't break anything and wait for the diamond (easy)." Um...no lol. Funny how the place that found the pwer diamond is the place that has the fastest builders and the fastest and biggest chainers! Imagine that? They somehow dumbed the game down and now by anyone's rules they are superior by far. Come on now...Can't be that blind. You are still setting up big combos and big gems but with the power diamond you must do it faster and better. I used to challenge ppl all of the time with no power diamond rules where they could power diamond and I couldn't...it was common out here. They never won more than a few games next to 20. But they had the move that makes the game easy? k. I can build 2 huge gems and break them both at the same time(not a chain) well before the diamond gets there. Then what? Your power diamond can only counter now...but wait! I decide to kill you because that would be more fun...so I diamond first...then you diamond...but I have a leet chain and have priority on my next attack and blow but one of my gems...now you need to get past my counters to...wait there goes my other power gem...ggpo. The deciding factor would not be the diamond. We used to play all clear here as well. Clearing your entire screen as many times as you can. The most thrilling, dangerous and strategic strategies all come with the power diamond. 2) What were originally very weak setups become very powerful. For example, suppose my side is 1/4 red, 1/4 green and 1/2 blue with absolutely nothing connected (i.e. all 1x1 gems) and no crash gems. That position is extremely weak. Without the diamond trick, there's nothing I can do to mount an offensive with a setup like that. With the diamond trick, all I have to do is figure out a way to use it on the blue and I'm good to go." Ok...check the glaring flaw here. You are already playing wack...then you somehow strategically find a way to diamond blue...ok...but your opponent is playing well and strategically with proper timing, sets his off...do you really think you have a chance at winning? The power diamond is not going to help you stand a chance...it's just help you from getting slaughtered in only a few seconds. See, you like to omit the fact that both players have the ability. And you don't ever add counters into your equation. You can drop 99 on John with a power diamond...he'll wait...diamond RIGHT back counter maybe 40 and set off a 5-7 chain which kills you. You don't understand how to play like this. All of your gem placement arguments fall through when you add the other players gameplay into effect and then add counters...etc. It's a joke bro. "This is another example of how the diamond trick reduces the emphasis of gem placement, but the effect here is even more insidious. It means that if the other guy's side is more than 1/2 full, I have to completely avoid column 4 regardless of whether or not he's got a big chain or large gem built up. If I don't, I risk death the next time he gets a diamond." But you are not taking into account that diamonds do not come up randomly...both players KNOW when it is happening...so I can build as high as I want knowing exactly when the diamond is coming and what I'm setting off with it. Sure if you don't play for a while and tend NOT to look at your opponents screen this can happen...but again...you're simply playing shitty...little to do with the diamond. "Not building in column 4 is a HUGE roadblock for anyone who wants to setup a large chain. It essentially means you get a 3x12 and a 2x12 column to work with instead of 1 6x12." Ok...how could you have thought this through!? Your chains go from top to bottom...so at the halfway point if you want to avoid filling up your middle that does not disregard the playing field at all...it just means that it would probably be smart to not start your chain from that point if you are depending on one bomb to get you out. But in no way does it take any of the screen away. Naturally you're gonna wanna stop building at a certain point and avoid the center if you got hit with something good...that is just smart...but as far as offense...there should be multiple openings set up with all colors so that any gem coming can lower you r screen if need be anywhere near the top 25% of the screen...that's just general defense. Your chains should've been set up somewhere from the bottom on up...if you are halfway up trying to start your chain...you probably didn't counter when you should have. Before, there was a risk/reward tradeoff to building in column 4." lol and there always will be "It made it easier for your opponent to kill you, but gave you much more flexibility in building a large chain and thus kill your opponent. It uppped the stakes." No? It simply baited you into playing lamely. Just like wasting a super hoping it will randomly connect because you can't take anymore block damage. Building like that eventually FORCES you to make calls you shouldn't have been forced to make. Bad form. Even without the diamond. "Before you could selectively decide to build in column 4 based on the strength of your opponents setup. Now, every setup is strong, so you can never build in column 4. The risk is just too great." I can look at my opponents screen...if he doesn't have any huge gems...or any nice chains from breaking any one color...his screen is dirt...and I probably won't even power diamond his power diamond. I'll probably counter his power diamond with something much weaker. Because I want my gems just where they are and I don't want to give him good artillery when it's apparent I have nothing to worry about...unless my counter will outright kill his sorry screen. "The diamond trick adds some new features to the game, but I think it's worse off because of them. It's a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and a thremonuclear device all rolled into a nice little package." That's exactly what I meant when I said that you were greatly mistaken. Your concept of the game and how it is played was already all wacky before you knew about the power diamond heheh. It's as if you took ST (a perfectly good game for what it is) and added CC's for no good reason. Would it still be a good game? Depends on your tastes. Would it be as good as ST? Again, depends on your tastes, but my opinion is "no". I too was thinking of sf. And ST is a poor example. Because all ccs are not equal and don't depend greatly on what your opponent does to decide the damage inflicted upon you. Counters don't actually negate eachother they override eachother...these by themselves should be obvious that it's a poor comparison. I really hope I helped you understand the game. I really didn't want to type too long and I am way too rusty to be speaking to much of the game at this point...but it's been obvious there is definately a lot missing from your perspectiv Posted by ant1x on 05:17:2001 02:51 AM: NO.1 Learn the attack patterns of each character. This is the single most useful tool yuo have in the game. Once you know what you opponent's drop patterns are you can set up combos easily. No.2 Develop a strategy that works for you. This will come with more play but you must be able to see your gems on the grid before they're there. After you are comfortable with these 2 points the game will be very easy. Posted by Apoc on 05:30:2001 03:23 AM: *cough*Bumper*cough* Posted by JaHa on 05:30:2001 10:46 PM: hey gummi wassup im real rusty at spf and yeah you beat me..but my game is tetris attack you should try it its real fast and fun and it takes alot to kill someone and even though the screen is stacked past the top you still have a chance to comeback Posted by JaHa on 05:30:2001 10:49 PM: dan all the way he drops the most =) Posted by Monkey on 05:31:2001 01:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop Monkey: yea... i'm his gf... some ppl still don't know that.. some ppl still think i'm a guy! (and then there are those who think i'm a gay male with a crush on valle.... sometimes i dunno if they're joking or serious... scary) Sorry this took so long, I just forgot about this since it was in Gaming Discussion. But anyway, you were interviewed on the B4 tapes. If anyone could remember, like I did, they would know who you are. Posted by nrkizt on 05:31:2001 02:06 AM: Hey this thread rocks!. First time I heard of the power diamond, looks like its time to go experiment and alter strategies. Below is all my strats without power diamond, dunno how applicable they are, but anyways here goes. 1) This was taught to me by jchensor in '96. It's ideal for Ken vs Ken. (Hey james, making a comeback to arcade games. it's Tim, if you remember me after 5 yrs) It's probably dated because it was used right when the game was introduced. But it still proves effective if done right. It basically involves stacking power gems on the right side of the screen and placing crash gems just that they chain. Since it's Ken vs Ken, if you manage to strike first your opponent will have little lines of stuff to clear, so he'll drop mostly red. Because of this, after your first huge attack, you just keep the middle clear, accumulate red, and wait for the crash gem to finish him off. 2) This is the style I used for a while, but stopped. It's something like how you guys describe playing with power diamond (except i didn't know about it). It's Puzzle Fighter for Dummies, like someone previously put it. I choose speed 5, dump all crash gems on the left, any non-crash gem pairs on the right. Column 4 left empty. Speed 5 means that at the very least I'll be on par with my opponent, and most of the time I'll get a 5 or 6-chain to put him near death when my diamond comes. Btw this is a strategy for Donovan or Morrigan... don't ever try it with ken because you'll be dropping shitloads of red. You might as well pick Dan for the enhanced damage. 3) Sort of a hybrid. I try and form power gems on the right, avoiding column 4 (ie 2x2s) and dump all my crash gems on the left, unless I have one appropriate for a chain on the right. Mainly attack using diamond and chains. It's more of a defensive strategy. You basically need your opponent to provide you ammo to attack with. (ie About the diamond, many ppl wait for the other guy to drop the diamond first, so that they have ammunition when their own diamond comes. It gets quite dumb sometimes when playing at the same speed, both players just doing nothing, waiting to see whose diamond breaks first.) There's my two cents worth. Dunno how useful any of this is now. I'll go and try out the power diamond strat, see how it goes. I'm one of the top players in my country, enrolling in Berkeley fall 2001, we'll see how I do on PF and other Capcom games at the Bearcade. Posted by jchensor on 05:31:2001 07:42 AM: I have no reason to post. Just wanted to say "Hi!" to Gummy. ^_^ Also, if anyone out there reads any FAQs out there that claim I'm good at Puzzle Fighter, the writer is ON CRACK. ^_^ I am not good at Puzzle Fighter, never was. ^_^ Ask Kakarot... he toasted me at Folsom. ^_^ - James Posted by SyberNinja on 05:31:2001 09:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by LiquiTed Man I always get a warm feeling inside after reading GummyDrop's posts Syber.... The good thing about ECC is the Break has a PF machine there and there is always much play going on in between matches . i'll be there playing after my sound defeats in CapSNK !) Ted hey at ECC6 were you there? If so i was the white dude with the dragon ball shirt (orange and yellow) with a stuffed animal dragon on my shoulder lol notice me? i didn't even see the puzzle fighter!!!!! i was sooo upset...almost cried..until i saw 3 MvC2 cabnits lol Posted by elffzero on 05:31:2001 09:34 AM: WOW cool... it's always fun to find a game had more depth than you originally thought. Thanx to Gummydrop for bringing this up. oh hey i had a question here somewhere.... *rumages through bag o' questions* -What about Hsein-ko? i've always had the best luck w/ her. is she just avg? does she suck? if shes avg that's cool as long as there's not some big exploitable weakness. all i have to say is OPM & RSC if you're reading this... You're going down! SPF2T style. Posted by GummyDrop on 05:31:2001 10:18 AM: lol.... i kinda stopped reading the thread... then i decided to look over some things... and found ppl still posting! i cried!! (and i still don't think i've really done any teaching heheh) well... thank you soooooo much everyone who posted... when i thought i've learned all that i can... i continue to learn more! for example: i didn't know that the fatter the gem was the more damage it did! a 4x2 did more than a 2x4 [thank you sirlin] or that speed 1 does more damage than speed 5!! amazing huh? i look forward to playing everyone at b5.. i'm sure you guys will give me a run for my money! *muah* see everyone at b5! oh and don't forget to donate! Posted by Bastion on 05:31:2001 04:56 PM: Earlier in this thread we agreed I was a puzzle fighter scrub. Since then I've gotten alot better, and I can actually see that there is a game here. What I want to know is, when you go into a game with someone what is the first thing you do? What is your process of building, and what do you look at on your opponents side to understand what he/she is trying to do? Posted by JumpsuitJesse on 05:31:2001 06:30 PM: Gummy, Can you make sure the Puzzle Fighter is at B5. My girl is going with me and she wants to play....if not that than atleast Bust a Move(puzzle bobble!) Laters Ms Thang!! JumpsuitJesse "Let's Dance" Johnny Cage - Mortal Kombat the Movie Posted by SyberNinja on 06:01:2001 06:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop lol.... i kinda stopped reading the thread... then i decided to look over some things... and found ppl still posting! i cried!! (and i still don't think i've really done any teaching heheh) well... thank you soooooo much everyone who posted... when i thought i've learned all that i can... i continue to learn more! for example: i didn't know that the fatter the gem was the more damage it did! a 4x2 did more than a 2x4 [thank you sirlin] or that speed 1 does more damage than speed 5!! amazing huh? i look forward to playing everyone at b5.. i'm sure you guys will give me a run for my money! *muah* see everyone at b5! oh and don't forget to donate! heh i will get OWNED in that game for free without a doubt i suck at it..but with the help of you and everyone else i should be a PAR player by B5....then again i am still trying to get to B5 so i may not even get to play anyone there :*( Oh well until then i will still play lol Posted by Maximum Burst on 06:01:2001 06:35 AM: Hey syber I know you are gonna compete in the money pot tourney at my house in Puzzle fighter right. Posted by puzzlefite on 06:02:2001 06:55 AM: Wow! I just stumbled onto this Puzzle Fighter thread!! I probably learned more today than any strategy guide I've read. In fact after seeing all you big-time kali players out there, I don't think I'm worthy of my screenname haha... Oh wellz, I'm here representing my lil corner of Seattle, WA. Any competitors around? I haven't played any decent competition in ages! Oh I just tried that "Power Diamond" trick. Wow it really works. Even on Playstation! So is it considered legitimate play or not? Seems like people just feel like it's "cheap," just like throws when Street Fighter 2 first came out. Haha funny how this seems to have evolved into practically every Capcom game around! I just wanted to know! What's the biggest chain you guys have ever gotten? Mine was 8! Accidental of course! My friend and I have gotten a 7 chain and a 6 chain in the same game though. Hopefully I'll be able to make it down to B5! I'm looking forward more to the Puzzle Fighter competition than the actual "fighting" hehe Gon Liu Posted by resist on 06:04:2001 08:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Deviant hey, i used to play the first super puzzle fighter, so i'm not sure if this q applies to spf2t, but i wanted to know some strategies/tricks for playing as dan. obviously his counter is pretty weak, no, extremely weak, but i wanted to see if i could beat the game with him. i got as far as akuma before, but just could not get past the dark hadou puzzle master. thanks Deviant Damn, haven't played puzzle fighter for a while. Anyway, when I used to play a lot, I learned how to play dan just for the sake of beating everyone with the worst possible person in the game. For dan, you must be willing to take hits. You must know every characters attack/counter paterns and place your you blocks accordingly to create the biggest possible combos and chains. You must take some very high risks when playing dan. Most importantly, One hit KO's. It is really hard to explain all of this without showing it but that is how it is done. Try to place as many breakers randomly around the screen where you know your opponents counters will drop. Build huge combos and chains like this. With dan, it really comes down to practice building the giant combos and chains for the one hit kill. Basically clear your almost full screen and fill the opponents with the final strategically placed breaker. I know this is not much but as I said, it is really hard to explain in short without showing. Posted by ej_333 on 06:04:2001 09:59 PM: oh man, this game revolves around a glitch?! Man, that makes it too complicated!! I was just starting to get into it, too. Posted by Apoc on 06:04:2001 10:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by ej_333 oh man, this game revolves around a glitch?! Man, that makes it too complicated!! I was just starting to get into it, too. lol. Is this a bay area thing? Apoc. Posted by ej_333 on 06:05:2001 04:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Apoc lol. Is this a bay area thing? Apoc. nah, i'm just pretty slow at puzzle games. They're too complicated! Well, except for Tetris. Posted by Real Sacred Cow on 06:07:2001 12:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by elffzero WOW cool... it's always fun to find a game had more depth than you originally thought. Thanx to Gummydrop for bringing this up. oh hey i had a question here somewhere.... *rumages through bag o' questions* -What about Hsein-ko? i've always had the best luck w/ her. is she just avg? does she suck? if shes avg that's cool as long as there's not some big exploitable weakness. all i have to say is OPM & RSC if you're reading this... You're going down! SPF2T style. I'm reading this as well, so bring it on buddy. I'll smash u with my baby toe!!! Posted by DyselonSLX on 06:07:2001 09:31 PM: Oh my god, guys. This thread couldn't have come along at a better time. I just got into this game. I love it, too... There's a ton of strategy to it. We have to start a Kaillera tournament, or ladder, or something. As far as questions go, some asked how to start a match out, and I'm curious about that as well. Also, is Morrigan the real deal? I keep hearing that in this thread, but whenever I play her, I just stack reds in column 2, and 5, and make fat ass power gems on her. Of course my opponents are as novice as myself. -- DyselonSLX - Puzzle games. They're like fighters, but I don't suck at them. Posted by GummyDrop on 06:16:2001 06:07 AM: okay... here's a question i've been dying to find out... say you break a block... it sends one block to your opponent... but is the block placement random? or is there a pattern to where it will drop on your opponents side? Posted by puzzlefite on 06:16:2001 07:21 AM: I'll take a stab at this One block will land in either Colums 1, 2, 3, 5 or 6. Once those colums are full then it will fall in 4. Posted by puzzlefite on 06:16:2001 07:24 AM: Hmm... Yea it's random as far as I know....not that I know that much. Posted by Kyokugen Yuri on 06:24:2001 09:47 AM: I agree that Ken is the best in the game because of his alternating four rows CG. As for Donovan, I think the gap between Ken and him is way to big because you can cheat build on Donovan. Usually when I play I try to rushdown cause I can build fast and like to end the round when the diamond comes but I change my gameplan by building more patient against Donovan. If you try to limit your building space from columns 3 to 6 and consistently put red gems on column 2 and a little on column 1 (if your opponent isn't filling up red gems on column 1 for you), than eventually by the time you get the diamond you break yellow. Columns 1 and 2 should be stacked with red to the top of the screen and when you break that red PG, the round is pretty much over. The only way I think you can beat this is of course to send a lot of gems before they have a chance to stack up columns 1 and 2 with red. As for Morrigan, I try surrounding the two middle columns with red but it's kinda risky trying to build around column 4 especially if they brake big then you have to get through the green to before the red. Any SHGL peeps down for some PF Friday nights? PM me! Posted by DyselonSLX on 07:01:2001 03:05 AM: Okay, this thread need s long deserved bump. I love this game. And I actually got to play it in a real arcade (SHGL no less) against real people today. Felt awfully odd with a joystick. We need a Kaillera tournament. Still need info on how to start a round out. Just try to build a power gem in 1-3? Oh, and how do you guys feel about early drops? I mean, I know I'm just going to drop red, if I'm playing Ken, but it seems like a good idea to bust a couple to clear some room on your screen, and to hopefully stick a red right in the middle of any forming power gems (unless of course they're red. Which they probably are. Damn.) What do you do with all the gem breakers that build up? I saw one guy today stack tons of junk pairs in 5 and 6, but that seemed like a waste of space. I'd be nice if there was an easy way to keep them available, so you could use them to defend. Hrm. -- DyselonSLX - Wish I had an extra token. I wanted to play as Dan. Posted by Bastion on 07:24:2001 06:39 PM: I've been playing the game more recently and I have a question. Say you have a 2x2 green power gem sitting on top of a larger red power gem. You have no choice but to use a diamond on the green power gem which causes a red grash gem to fall on the large red power gem. Ok? What I want ot know is obviously the green power gem is going to get the reduced damage, but does the large red power gem also suffer reduced damage? Posted by Ranchan on 07:24:2001 06:52 PM: I'm gonna' pick up PFX for DC this weekend. Anyone who already got it.. what are some new strategies with the Y and Z mode? It's like Columns and Tetris Attack now.. so.. there should be a difference in how it's played, right? Posted by Bastion on 07:24:2001 07:08 PM: I haven't played much of Z, but I play Y only because my brother likes it more than X. Though don't get your hopes up to much for Y. I might be wrong but from what I've seen there seems to be lacking strategy in Y. First of all character selection is limited even more so then before. In Y mode the goal is to get a line of three similarly colored gems. Characters like Dan, Ryu, Sakura, and Ken have to struggle more because they drop straight lines of gems. In X you could decided when you wanted to break a gem but in Y as soon as three gems come in contact they break. And that is when the teater-totter gameplay starts. 1P-Ken breaks two lines and sends counter gems to the other side, as soon as the timer on the counter gems is up on the 2P-Donovan side they automaticaly break and send more counter gems to Kens side, when the time is up the counter gems break and more move back to Donovans side, back and forth, back and forth. Then you both get diamonds, you have to decided if the diamond will kill him or not, if it doesn't then he uses his diamond and wins. Thats what I know about it so far (after about 2 hours of playing total, so its not a advanced idea of the mode). X is still far more complete feeling. Play all modes they are still fun. Oh yeah, Gouki, Devilot and Chun-li are my picks for top tier in Y. Gouki, and Devilot are obvious choices, but I selected Chun-li (and I might be wrong about this) because if you look at her pattern she only drops in blocks of twos. Its easy to setup against but at least her counter gems don't necessarily crash as soon as they finish timing down. I dont know, play around when you get it. Posted by Ranchan on 07:24:2001 07:28 PM: Hmm.. top tiers for Y.. Chun Li.. interesting, cause we all know she was near bottom for X mode.. X Mode (not counting hidden characters): Ken Donovan Sakura Morrigan Ryu Hsien-Ko Chun Li Felicia Something like that right? And Gouki and Devilot would.. be inbetween Ken and Donovan? (I really don't like their damage reduction). Posted by Bastion on 07:24:2001 07:43 PM: Thats just the way I see it so far. (Like how Iceman was considered cheap when mvc2 was out for a week.) Chunli might not be good, but I know she is ALOT better than Dan and Ryu. Dan in X was atleast playable, in Y he is the most worthless character in capcom history. Gouki vs Devilot in Y mode last FOREVER! They do so little damage. Just looking at your tiers....I was always told it was: Ken (Gouki/Devilot) Donovan Hsien Ko Sakura The Rest But it doesn't matter as long as we agree about Ken and Donovan then all is right with the world. Posted by Bastion on 07:25:2001 04:50 AM: I'm just gonna bump my question. It would be damn cool if someone knew the answer. I've been playing the game more recently and I have a question. Say you have a 2x2 green power gem sitting on top of a larger red power gem. You have no choice but to use a diamond on the green power gem which causes a red grash gem to fall on the large red power gem. Ok? What I want ot know is obviously the green power gem is going to get the reduced damage, but does the large red power gem also suffer reduced damage? Posted by puzzlefite on 07:25:2001 08:26 AM: From experience.... From experience, after the diamond destroys the intial color, all chains that result have the normal damage of a 2 chain. Of course, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Still this scenario isn't that hard to test so give it a try. Try putting a blue crash gem on 2 green gems on a 3x3 blue crash gem and destroy it with a diamond. If it yields around 27, then it was not reduced by the diamond. Hope that helps. Posted by GummyDrop on 08:29:2001 07:50 AM: omg.... i finally got to play pf for dc during b5 with some of th greatest pf players.... it was soooooooooooooooo much fun!!!!!! Y and Z mode were interesting to say the least... had a lot of fun playing it (although x will remain forever my favorite) any thoughts on these two other modes? Posted by Bastion on 08:29:2001 08:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop omg.... i finally got to play pf for dc during b5 with some of th greatest pf players.... it was soooooooooooooooo much fun!!!!!! Y and Z mode were interesting to say the least... had a lot of fun playing it (although x will remain forever my favorite) any thoughts on these two other modes? X is still the most fun. But I've experimented with Y mode quite a bit. And honestly I still dont' know if it any good or not. Y mode messes with the tiers a bit, and it seems kinda teeter-totter-ish. Like you purposeley break a large amount of gems so that when they are sent over to the opponents side it's not enough to kill him, then they all break and a whole hell of alot are sent to your side but it isn't enough to kill you, then those break and the counter gems fill your opponents screen. The secret to Y is chaining, you have to do a good 7 hit chain to do some amazing damage. IMO X is still more fun. How are Y and Z modes accepted in your circle of players? Posted by GummyDrop on 09:01:2001 07:12 AM: everyone hates the other modes lol but shinjn and javi like z X will FOREVER be a favorite Posted by LiquiTed on 09:16:2001 04:13 AM: Bump...and , I finally picked up a SPF2X today after reading some of your thoughts on X,Y, and Z modes (which I had no idea even existed) and found Z mode to be big fun . it is a totally new way to look at using the gems . It is much fun and as always X mode is awesome . As for Y mode , I found it to be somewhat amatuer-ish . It is way too easy to get 6 or 7 hit chains w/out even trying (but I love the "super-mater" diamond bar) . Hopefully PF will make it as a permanent member in the SF Tournament cycle ! Ted quote: Originally posted by GummyDrop everyone hates the other modes lol but shinjn and javi like z X will FOREVER be a favorite Posted by CaliPower on 09:19:2001 08:49 AM: hihi! this is gummydrop! (i'm at calipower's place) liquited.. i'm glad you enjoy the other modes.. Z is a bit more fun than Y.. but mind you, Z can get pretty scrubby... in the words of the great alex valle, "RUSH THAT SHIT DOWN". i find this to work pretty well in Z... ie. don't concern yourself with building chains or even giant power gems.. rush it down... this makes the game much more fast paced and fun... especially pushing R repeatedly to gain more gems... lol... i'm also noticing that the diamond is preselected for you (the diamond will always have a color preselected, and to activate you MUST place that diamond next to a gem of the same color) a feature not available in X or Y modes. i'm wondering (and this questions goes to all out there), how is the color determined? is it random? or can you manipulate the color that the diamond will be? i would gladly test this theory out myself but sadly alex nor myself have a dreamcast *sigh* hope someone finds this out for me! Posted by dkerbs on 01:11:2002 10:13 PM: What is puzzle fighter? Posted by CARPALTUNNEL on 01:14:2002 10:24 PM: HEY I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIAMOND TRICK PLEASE EXPLAIN IN DETAIL! Posted by CaliPower on 02:19:2002 02:25 AM: hihi! gummydrop here at casa de valle... internet's broken at my house i decided to check up on my thread... i know i'm a month late and all... but here's the diamond trick... when you get your diamond (which is every 25th drop i believe?) you want to have it fall in an isolated column... you should be able to ONLY make a 180 flip at the bottom of this column (whichever column you choose).. if you can rotate your gem horizontally at then end of the column, then this trick won't work... decide which color you want to break- either the gem on top of the diamond, or the gem at the bottom of your isolated column. when you get near the end of the column, you flip your diamond to break the color of your choice.. this sends more damage to your opponent... if you flip your diamond but it lands horizontal to your starting positions, the diamond trick doesn't work... i hope this helps... i'm re-reading it and it doesn't make that much sense... guess you gotta see it... Posted by CaliPower on 02:19:2002 02:38 AM: lol gummydrop again... funny thing happened this weekend... valle, chunnie, my brother and i were at the Tet festival saturday night, celebrating the chinese new year... we played games, ate some food, won a goldfish (whom i named Cesar ) and walked around. after getting hella baited at this ping pong game (we each burned about 6-8 bucks and didn't win a THING) we were heading out home... i decided to get one more bbq pork stick before we leave when i saw another dart game that looked promising... we stood behind the other players, waiting for our turn when my brother pointed out some cute girl (well, HE thought she was cute.. i thought she was plain) holding some sign... my eyes lit up... she was holding a sign challenging PUZZLE FIGHTER players to come up and play... omg i darted to the booth next to us and watched.... there was a ps2, tv, and pads... i was so excited!! i didn't even care what the prize was.. i just wanted to play.. it costs $1 to play... 1 win gets you a juggling set, 2 consecutive wins gets you a stuffed heart, 3 consecutive wins gets you $5. and then on the table was a GIANT clifford the big red dog plush toy. it was as big as me (i'm 5' btw)!!! we asked how to win that and they said 5 consecutive wins... unfortunately i lost my 4 game and got $5... i made alex play...lol after the 5 wins.. the ucla chick looked hella sad/pissed off giving clifford to alex, who in turned gave it to me, and i started jumping up and down and running with this giant red dog- and i couldn't even see where i was going!!! we laughed about how ROCKED that booth got.. now what are they gonna do about their big prize??? i'm sure they didn't have ANOTHER big plush toy lying aruond... lol i'm a bit disappointed i didn't win it myself, but hey.. i'm hella happy... clifford's sitting in my room next to my bed... this hella made up for the ping pong game! goes to show... gamers rock. THANK YOU ALEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! *muah* Posted by LiquiTed on 02:19:2002 04:29 AM: Hahaha... Congrats on the Clifford.....thats it just goes to show it pays to play Puzzle Fighter ! Ted Posted by Brahma on 02:20:2002 07:40 PM: Wow, I guess I never realized how many other people played PF. Me and my girlfriend play it almost every day for at least an hour or so. Anyways, I'm still kind of unclear on how the diamond glitch is done. Do you flip the diamond before it touches down or after? Can you flip or move the diamond before you do the glitch (Like if I flip it to the side and move it over to column 1) and does the diamond have to be in column 4? Any help here would be appreciated. Posted by LIOKAISER ALIVE on 02:21:2002 12:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by Brahma Wow, I guess I never realized how many other people played PF. Me and my girlfriend play it almost every day for at least an hour or so. Anyways, I'm still kind of unclear on how the diamond glitch is done. Do you flip the diamond before it touches down or after? Can you flip or move the diamond before you do the glitch (Like if I flip it to the side and move it over to column 1) and does the diamond have to be in column 4? Any help here would be appreciated. OMG!! After reading this whole thread, I thought that I was the ONLY one that knew how to do the Diamond Trick. I had discovered the Diamond trick in the beginning of '98. I will answer your question on how to do it. It DOES NOT matter what column you flip the Diamond in and it DOES NOT matter how tall the blocks are that isolates the color in betweem the blocks. You MUST flip the Diamond to the color that you want to bust as SOON as you land to get the 180 degree flip and that's it. As soon as you land then, IMMEDIATELY flip the Diamond to touch the isolated color and there you have it. Posted by Cletus Kasady on 02:21:2002 06:48 PM: When you want to use diamond trick, just find the column where you want to drop it (Doesn't matter whether it's facing up or down), drop it quickly with Down (Unless it benefits you to attack later (IE. right before they have a chance to break a lot of gems), and press either button once you see it kind of bounce upon contact with the gem already in place. If you do it right, the crash sounds a lot bigger, you get it relatively easily (Of course, the column you drop it in has to be lower than the two beside it (IE. if all three next to it are level it won't work). All times are GMT. The time now is 12:34 AM. Show all 95 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.